For the past 10 years, we have co-pastored our faith community, The Refuge, alongside each other and with a bunch of really wonderful people.  It’s been a bumpy, beautiful road.

We laugh and cry together.

And, we definitely talk a lot, too.

We talk about faith, the Bible, justice, and friends who are soaring and friends who are hurting and struggling.  We have spent countless hours talking and dreaming about new ways  for people to discover the power of Christ found in authentic and healing community.

At times, these conversations are effortless.  We feel connected and even bonded by the experience.  Other times, when we see things in wildly different ways, it can be difficult to imagine a way forward.  We have argued and been defensive.  We have left meetings crying or fuming.  We believe it’s worth it.  So we have humbled ourselves and chosen to stay at the table believing that the way forward is found by hanging in there together and practicing a different way.

At times, we may seem to align with the wider Christian community “tribes” of progressive and evangelical (Kathy leaning progressive and Karl leaning evangelical).  We are not crazy about these labels and how they can be so limiting; however, they give some framework of our differing perspectives.  At times, it can feel like we are fighting on different teams instead of being one body, one team, which we know in our hearts is our true-er, desired identity.

But, we remain committed to walking this journey together and trying to grow more deeply into this true-er identity week-by-week, month-by-month, year-by-year.

We invite you to join us in the hard work of being the Church with us.

We are asking those who are brave to hang out in our “office” with us at The Refuge as we laugh, talk and sometimes disagree about the passionate and important topics we process out loud together on Faith Circus.

We will do our best to show up bravely and unedited–without a net–as we tackle some of the high-wire, high-risk conversations that are shaping the Church today.

We are so glad you’re here.

You can also learn more about us at: